日志
Herbert Grubel 移民的经济成本
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移民的经济成本：没人告诉你的事
加拿大资讯 2026年5月22日
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4_SjnqW_1E
“廉价劳动力”真的会扼杀生产力吗？在4月29日移民委员会的听证会上，赫伯特·格鲁贝尔教授分享了他对移民净财政影响的惊人见解。我们将探讨企业需求与加拿大基础设施（如医疗保健和住房）负担之间的“权衡”。无论您是企业主还是纳税人，您都需要了解这些关于加拿大不断变化的经济格局的论点。<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
现在，我谨代表今天的第二场小组讨论，热烈欢迎各位证人。由于所有证人都在线上发言，我们很想念你们的现场参与。不过，我们很高兴你们能够亲临现场。 [哼] 那么，呃，我们有赫伯特·G·格鲁贝尔先生。
格鲁贝尔先生，经济学荣誉退休教授。欢迎。我们还有艾伦·米尔，舍布鲁克大学教授贝努，梅教授。欢迎梅兰德教授。我们还有切瓦里，商人兼贝努公司老板。
那么，我们先给你们每人五分钟时间，进行开场陈述，然后再进入问答环节。现在，我请格鲁贝尔先生开始，五分钟时间。格鲁贝尔教授，您的五分钟时间现在开始。谢谢主席女士。
我曾一起在全国各地奔波了两年。所以我非常熟悉这种氛围。最根本的是，我欢迎像我们现在这样就移民政策设计举行公开听证会我希望这能为议会带来应有的关注和讨论这是一直需要的。就我个人而言，尽管我在移民经济学领域发表了大量学术论文，但我从未被邀请参与关于制定官方移民目标和筛选标准的讨论而且，作为1993年至1997年的议员，我也从未被要求就这些问题投票。只有一次，一位部长私下告诉我要我继续研究和发表论文，并督促他严格执行。
我相信，最需要改变的是关于决定临时居民数量和筛选标准的政策获准在加拿大工作或学习的临时居民填补经济中季节性或临时劳动力短缺的外国人应按一定数量、定期且由议会委员会设定的时间表予以接纳。不应有外国学生就读小学和中学。他们对加拿大没有益处，而且会加重我们学校的资源负担。外国学生应被允许就读加拿大的学院、大学和研究生院。他们为院校和经济带来宝贵的益处，尤其是在他们支付学费的情况下。已在这些院校完成学位的外国学生不应再是永久居民身份的优先候选人。政府应采取政策，确保
临时工人和学生在签证到期后离开加拿大。
现在来说说另一个问题，父母和祖父母应该只被授予超级访客签证，就像2016年政府推行改革之前那样。这完全合情合理。如果一个外国人不想在没有父母陪同的情况下入境，他根本就不应该入境。处理寻求庇护者的制度需要改革。或许从根本上来说，要像其他西方民主国家那样。这样的改革可能包括制定减少难民身份申请积压的方法。
我完全意识到这是我们外交政策面临的最棘手的问题之一，而且没有简单的解决办法。这其中存在权衡取舍，涉及到基本的人类价值观。移民的苦难以及加拿大人在住房问题上的苦难，以及他们获得医疗服务的机会。还有一分钟。格鲁贝尔教授，抱歉。还有一分钟。好的。谢谢您，女士。我讲完了。
[笑声] [倒吸一口气] 谢谢您，教授。您……谢谢
您。我很感激。好的。萨武教授，现在轮到您了，米兰德教授，您有五分钟时间。大家下午好。感谢, 今天抽出时间听我发言，也感谢你们在这个委员会所做的工作。在我的研究中过去十年，作为一名法学教授，我得以观察某些旨在维护加拿大移民制度的完整性并提高其效率的规则，实际上却产生了与这些目标背道而驰的效果，并且对加拿大移民权利的保护产生了负面影响。
[嗤之以鼻] 我今天演讲的目的是为了说服, 既然您认为引入更多规则仅仅是为了发出一个强烈的政治信号，表明我们正在采取措施解决移民制度中的滥用行为往往无法达到预期效果，我们需要更全面地考虑这些影响，以确保新规则不会给其他部门带来更大的压力转移问题，加剧移民和加拿大社区的不安全感。
请允许我举个例子，比如著名的“安全第三国协议”。我知道您已经讨论过很多次了。如果您愿意，我可以在问答环节再举一些其他例子。先，我想强调，我同意其他发言者提出的一些问题。
关于根据“安全第三国协议”被遣返回美国的移民的人权侵犯问题。自2025年1月以来，情况尤其令人担忧。政府应该将此作为优先事项，并暂停执行该协议。但我知道这对一些委员会成员来说是一个有争议的话题。
但我希望大家记住的是，除了与移民人权相关的问题之外，还会对系统的效率以及居住在边境地区的社区的安全感产生影响。鉴于与此相关的沟通，这一点尤为重要。
委员会的磋商，因为该协议已扩展至整个陆地边界，而罗克索姆路已被关闭，而且我们听说，此前，移民已转向其他途径进入加拿大。因此，从纸面上看，加拿大移民和难民委员会网站上关于非法入境的统计数据有所下降，但实际上秘密入境，即那些没有向皇家骑警自首的人，就像罗克索姆路的情况一样，增加了。皇家骑警已经记录了这一事实，并且多家媒体也对此进行了报道。我与一位博士生启动了一个研究项目，旨在记录安全第三国协议和加强边境安全措施如何对科威特驻埃斯特里地区边境社区产生重大的人道主义和安全影响。
我们的初步数据显示，该地区的非法越境事件有所增加，也许你们已经在媒体上看到过相关报道，甚至还有一人被发现死于树林中，这起事件在三月份有报道，但此人去年就去世了。[嗤之以鼻] 以前从未发生过这种情况，因此，这种情况给当地资源带来了压力，也给当地居民带来了恐惧感。加拿大单方面取消14天的移民定位期限
通过BC12，我知道你们在委员会上也听到了，这只会加剧这种现象。所以，这是一个试图减轻庇护系统压力并维护系统完整性的明显例子，但实际上却以一种不对称的方式增加了压力。所以它正在施加压力，呃，这些联邦法规带来的压力正在影响到当地的农村市政当局，并且也对正在边境和边境社区部署的资源和安全措施产生了影响，同时增加了社区的不安全感，以及移民的不安全感。几位发言者都强调了官僚主义问题和缺乏协调。我们在上一个小组讨论中也听到了这些，还有申请处理的延误，我认为这些才是真正需要解决的问题。
您还有一分钟时间。好的。谢谢。对于寻求庇护者来说，我认为解决方案不在于像政府那样增加拒绝他们申请的理由。
政府正在尝试这样做。C12修正案就是如此，之前的其他修正案也是如此。所以，我认为，以及其他几位利益相关者也认为，解决方案在于缩短申请处理时间。并创建替代移民途径。非常感谢，我很乐意回答您的问题。非常感谢，教授。现在请查韦利先生发言。您有五分钟时间。
您好。谢谢。我是来自马格达伦群岛的帕特里克·切夫。我是一位商人，从业超过30年。今天我来这里是为了谈谈马格达伦群岛。这是一个位于加拿大东部圣劳伦斯湾圣劳伦斯河中心的小群岛，非常美丽。应该列入您的旅行愿望清单。我们希望您能来这里。期待您来马格达伦群岛参观的那一天。
The economic cost of immigration: What no one is telling you
Canada Info 2026年5月22日
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4_SjnqW_1E
Does "cheap labor" actually kill productivity? In this April 29 hearing at the immigration committee, Professor Herbert Grubel shares a startling perspective on the net fiscal impact of immigration. We explore the "trade-off" between business needs and the burden on Canadian infrastructure like healthcare and housing. Whether you're a business owner or a taxpayer, you need to hear these arguments about Canada's changing economic landscape.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
And I now would like to warmly welcome our witnesses for our second panel today. Uh we have everybody online so we are missing you in person. Uh but we're glad that you could join us in person. [snorts] So uh we have uh Mr. Herbert G.
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Gubel uh emeritus uh professor of economics. Welcome. We have Elen Meer,
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professor University Sherbrook Benu,
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Professor May. Welcome, Professor Merand. And we have Chevari, businessman and owner, Benu.
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Aui. Okay. Uh,
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a welcome. So we will start with five minutes uh for each of you for your
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opening statements before we proceed to a round of questions. So I would now
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like to invite Grubel uh to begin for five minutes.
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Professor Grubell, your five minutes starts now. Thank you Madame Chair. I I traveled
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around the country for two years with finance committee. So I'm very familiar
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with the atmosphere. Most fundamentally I welcome public
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hearings as we are having now on designs of our immigration policy.
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I think I hope it will give the deserved publicity and discussion in parliament
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that has been needed. On a personal note, despite my numerous
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academic publications in the field of immigration economics, I was never asked
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to participate in the discussions around the setting of official immigration
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targets and selection criteria. Nor as a member of parliament from 93 to
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97 was I ever asked to vote on these issues. Only once did a minister tell me
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privately to keep up my research and publications and hold his feet to the
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fire. I believe that in the that in greatest
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need of change are policies determining the number and selection criteria of
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temporary residents. temporary resident who are admitted to work or study in
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Canada. Foreigners who fill seasonal or temporary labor shortages in the economy
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should be admitted in numbers at frequent regular intervals and set by
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parliamentary committee. The there should be no foreign students
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attending elementary and secondary schools. They do not benefit Canada and
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burden our schools resources. Foreign students should be admitted to
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attend Canadian colleges, universities and graduate schools. They bring
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valuable benefits to the institutions and economy, especially to the extent
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that they pay tuition. Foreign students who have completed
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degrees in these institutions should no longer be preferred candidates for
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permanent resident status. The government should adopt policy to ensure
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does that temporary workers and students leave Canada after their visas have
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expired. Now on a separate issue, parents and
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grandparents should be granted only super
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visitor visas as they had been practiced before the changes initiated by the
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government in 2016. It makes eminent sense.
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If a a foreigner does not want to come without his parents, he just should not
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come. The system dealing with asylum seekers needs to be reformed. Possibly
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fundamentally much as it is in other western democracies. Such reforms may include the development
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of ways in which the backlog of applications for refugees status is
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reduced. I'm fully aware that this is one of the most difficult problems our
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foreign policy faces and there are no easy solutions. There are tradeoffs that
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involved fundamental human values. the suffering of
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immigrants, but also the suffering of Canadians who find their uh housing,
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their medic access to medical one minute left. Professor Grubel,
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pardon me. One minute left. Fine. Thank you, madam. I'm done.
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[laughter] [gasps] Thank you, professor. You are uh Thank
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you. I appreciate that. Okay. Um Savu, Professor, it's now over to you, Professor Meerand,
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you have five minutes. Good afternoon everyone. Thank you for
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taking the time to listen to me today and thank you for the work that you're doing on this committee. In my research
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as a law professor over the last 10 years, I've been able to look at how certain rules which were adopted to
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preserve the integrity of the Canadian immigration system and uh to make it more efficient have in reality had the
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opposite effect to these objectives as well as negatively affecting the protection of migrants rights in Canada.
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[snorts] The aim of my presentation today is to convince you that introducing more rules
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simply to send a strong political message that we're doing something to tackle abuses of the immigration system
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often fails to have the desired effect and that we need to consider these impacts more holistically to ensure that
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new rules do not place even greater pressure on other sectors
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uh uh shifting the problem and contribute to the insecurity of both migrants and Canadian communities. Allow
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me to give you an example using the uh uh the famous safe third country agreement. I know that you've discussed
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it uh many times. I could give you some other examples as well uh during the question period if you would like.
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Firstly, I would like to emphasize that I agree with uh a number of issues that have been raised by other speakers
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regarding human rights violations against migrants returned to the United States under the safe third country
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agreement. And the situation has been particularly worrying since January 2025. the government should uh uh
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address this uh as a matter of priority and suspend the application of the agreement. But I know this is a controversial subject for uh uh some
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members of the committee. But what I'd like you to retain as a message is that on top of those issues linked to human
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rights for migrants, there's also an impact on the efficiency of the system and the feeling that communities living
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on the border have with regard to their security. And that's particularly important uh given the comm linked to
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the committee's consultation rather since the agreement was extended to the entire land border and Roxom road was
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closed and we've heard uh you know uh that previously uh migrants have turned
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to other routes to enter Canada. So on paper the statistics available on the uh immigration and refugee board of
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Canada's website uh regarding irregular entries have decreased but in reality
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clandestine entries that is people who do not uh present themselves uh to the
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RCMP as was the case with Roxom Road have increased a fact that's been documented by the RCMP and reported on
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by several media outlets. I've started a research project with a PhD student documenting how the safe
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third country agreement and increased border security are having significant humanitarian and security impacts on the
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community uh the border community of the Kuwait RCM in the Estri region. Our
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preliminary data indicates that there's been an increase in illegal crossings in the region and maybe you've seen this in the media and there was even a person
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who was found uh uh dead in the woods that was reported in in March uh but the
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person died last year. [snorts] Uh that was never the case before and so this
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situation is putting uh pressure on local resources and it's also creating a sense of fear among the local
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population. Canada's unilateral removal of the 14-day period to locate migrants
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through BC12, and I know you've heard about this at committee, will only exacerbate this phenomenon. So, this is
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a glaring example of an attempt to reduce pressure on the asylum system and protect the integrity of the system,
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which in reality adds pressure in an asymmetrical way. So it's putting
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pressure uh so the the pressure from these federal rules is being felt on the
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rural municipality in the local area and it's also having an impact on uh the resources the security that are being
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put in place at the border and in border communities while at the same time increasing insecurity for communities
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and migrants. Several speakers have highlighted the uh bureaucratic issues, the lack of coordination
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uh we heard about that in the previous panel and the delays in processing applications and I think that these here
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are the real issues that need to be addressed. You have one minute left. Perfect. Thank you. For asylum seekers,
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the solution does not in my opinion lie in increasing the grounds for rejecting their applications as the government is
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attempting to do. And that was the case with C12, but it was also the case previously with uh other amendments. So
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in my opinion and in that of several other uh stakeholders, it lies in reducing application processing times
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and creating alternative migration pathways. So thank you very much and I'll be happy to answer your questions.
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Thank you uh very much professor me. And now it's over to Mr. Chavelli. You have
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five minutes. Hello. Thank you. Patrick Chev from the Magdalene Islands. I am a
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businessman and have been for over 30 years. And I'm here today to speak about the Magdalene Islands. It's a small uh
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archipe in the middle of the uh uh St. Lawrence at the Gulf of St. Lawrence in Eastern Canada. Uh beautiful islands. It
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should be on your bucket list for travel. And uh we hope to see you here.
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And the day that you come to visit us in the Magdalene Islands, you're going to see uh as you come in on the boat that u
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we have almost uh no more uh Magdalene Islands uh uh workers who are working on
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the boats. The people who are working on the boats all come from outside. You'll also be able to come and eat our crab and our lobster. It's very tasty. But
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now it's uh uh Mexicans who are processing uh crab and lobster on the island because there are no more uh uh
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Magdalan Islanders who work in the processing plants. And you'll see that our Tim Hortons is full because it is
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the key social hub on the island. And you'll also see uh the number of um uh
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workers who've come in from elsewhere, including the Philippines since 2023 to help us continue to serve customers. Why
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am I saying all this? Well, it's because we live on an island. We are isolated.
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We are uh far uh you know we're not even rural. We're you know in the middle of
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the the ocean. So we're very far from everything. We have an aging population.
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We have uh very few young people left in our schools. Uh uh you know we're seeing
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uh the population is aging like across Quebec. And there's a statistic that's interesting for the Magdalan Islands. Uh
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uh for every hundred people who retire there's only 43 to replace them. So, we are losing people.
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The other reason that I'm here today is also it's a personal reason because uh I mentioned the Tim Hortons. When you come
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and get your coffee in a couple of months, if you come in the fall, the Tim Hortons won't exist anymore. The Tim Hortons is going to be closed because
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all with all the laws that have changed in Canada since September 2024, it means
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that our Filipino workers and our international workers, well, we can't renew their permits.
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So, uh, it's just a Tim Hortons. It's just the Magalan Islands. It's not much, but for the people here, it's important.
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It's it's really a social hub on the islands, the place that everybody comes. And so, that's for the the people of the
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Magalan Islands. If, you know, we look at some of the other restaurants on the islands, most uh restaurants are closed
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several days a week because there aren't enough employees. There are also a number of uh foreign workers who work in
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the co-ops or in the daycarees and in our health care system. Um
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and you know in my field I would say that there are very very few people who
